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Justin_ICC
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Sesame crashing regularly
May 27th, 2004 at 3:10pm
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I've been finding that sesame is crashing very regularly with our application - sometimes it happens while loading preview - it also happens when modifying programming or doing a lot of manipulating of LE's.

I'm not sure if my application is too large but it seems to happen when I am going in and out of the programming editor. I will probably need to send a copy of our application to get detailed help though.

Justin
  
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Hammer
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Re: Sesame crashing regularly
Reply #1 - May 27th, 2004 at 3:47pm
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This isn't really specific enough to tell what's going on. Can you reproduce the problem, or does it just "happen"?
  
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Justin_ICC
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Re: Sesame crashing regularly
Reply #2 - May 27th, 2004 at 4:00pm
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It seems to just happen, I created the applicaiton with 1.0 and at the time it crashed a lot more, its getting better but still crashing more than it should. I'll send in the App what e-mail address and subject should I use for both problems?
  
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Ray the Reaper
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Re: Sesame crashing regularly
Reply #3 - May 27th, 2004 at 4:09pm
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Send them to Support@lantica.com along with a brief description of the problems. Be sure to send both the .DB and .DAT files.
  
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BOBSCOTT
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Re: Sesame crashing regularly
Reply #4 - May 27th, 2004 at 4:10pm
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Quote:
I'm not sure if my application is too large
Justin


Justin,

I am interested in how big your app is and how many records you have. The reliability of how a Sesame Application will hold up as it grows in size is an important concern to us all. Reliability is a huge issue for real life success.

I have created 1 application that has 9 databases over 65 tabs and about 20 subforms. This application is just a test and play not real life so it is dirty and ugly and has many warts but I have not seen any crashing or erratic behavior and I have had as many as 53000 records imported into it at one point.

  
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Justin_ICC
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Re: Sesame crashing regularly
Reply #5 - May 27th, 2004 at 4:58pm
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Bob, at this point we haven't really imported much data, the final database will have 200,000 records which will be split up amongst 18 databases (which are all different ways of splitting up the data). Each database has about 3-10 forms and 5-80 fields. Our main form has about 10-15 subforms on it.
  
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Hammer
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Re: Sesame crashing regularly
Reply #6 - May 27th, 2004 at 5:08pm
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Justin,

My concern at this point is that you may have some lingering corruption from issues that have since been fixed. Earlier versions had some issues with certain things you could do with Tabs that could cause a Form to crash, etc. Stuff like that. Thanks to the excellent user feedback we got on the initial release, we've taken care of these things and the reports of structural corruption have pretty much gone away. However, while bug fixes will prevent future issues, they cannot necessarily fix structural problems that already exist.

1.0.4 has the ability to both export and import form programming (requested by you, I believe  Smiley). You may want to consider rebuilding your structure from a clean stable base. If this is viable, it's the best approach. If not, we'll have to take these things as they come, and I'll try to get in there with my tweezers.
  
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Justin_ICC
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Re: Sesame crashing regularly
Reply #7 - May 27th, 2004 at 5:56pm
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I'm Glad to hear that will be avaialble in 1.0.4 Any idea when that will be released? I have been debating for a while about starting over as there are lingering things from my "learning" phase. I was wondering if it was maybe somethign related to that. I remember having lots of trouble with tab pages and it crashing the application regularly and causing odd behavior, I've almost got the application ready to be e-mailed.

The other thing is i've been spending a lot of time trying to figure out how to work things in a hiearchal model when i'm typically used to relational. It doesn't help that our database is trying to be relational in a hierarchal model.

I've actually been debating over the last week or so whether to scratch and start over with a clearer planned out design Up until now i've been trying to get individual concept components to work.



Justin
  
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Hammer
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Re: Sesame crashing regularly
Reply #8 - May 27th, 2004 at 9:28pm
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Justin,

I just sent you back your application with your Form under the correct path. You did indeed find a condition with reparenting of subrecords that was not fully covered. It is now.  Smiley
  
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Justin_ICC
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Re: Sesame crashing regularly
Reply #9 - May 28th, 2004 at 12:38pm
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Thanks Smiley

Hopefully that was the reason for other parts of the program crashing.

Can't wait for 1.04
  
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Hammer
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Re: Sesame crashing regularly
Reply #10 - May 28th, 2004 at 12:49pm
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Thanks Smiley

Hopefully that was the reason for other parts of the program crashing.

Can't wait for 1.04


Unlikely. All this did was cause a Form to become "lost" because it was no longer attached to a valid database path. Your app is so complex that simply spotting any particular cause for a crash is impossible. I hope that, on those occasions that you can reproduce a problem, you'll let us know. We certainly want to chase these things down.
  
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Justin_ICC
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Re: Sesame crashing regularly
Reply #11 - May 28th, 2004 at 1:17pm
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I know it crashed a few times while working on removing duplicated programming i'll se if I can get it to crash with any sort of regularity on those if so i'll let you know.

I think the redesign of the database in 1.0.4 might be the way to go. The program has a lot of little inconsistencies as I was learning to get it to do what I wanted. Little things like LE & field names, putting in more rigid naming conventions etc.

Right now the application is only at the tip of the iceburg in terms complexity.
  
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Re: Sesame crashing regularly
Reply #12 - May 28th, 2004 at 2:00pm
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One thing we have noticed from programmers who come from a relational database background is that they try (understandably) to treat Sesame like the relational models they are familiar with. Usually, this means they create a "sea of tables" and place a lot of focus on trying to normalize.

The Sesame model favors simplified process over normalized data. Sesame is okay with repetition of data. Sesame prefers clear hierarchies over the "sea of tables". It's a different mindset than working with the true relational model.  You may find that you want to forget a bit of what you already know.  Wink Wink
  
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Justin_ICC
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Re: Sesame crashing regularly
Reply #13 - May 28th, 2004 at 3:55pm
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I'm trying but unfortunately at any particular point we need to reference both parents & children (in terms of hierarchy) and occasionaly those that are from the same table i've tried drawing hierarchy diagrams and i've mostly figured it out but its giving me nightmares lol.

Its also hard as I only have 1 day a week really to work on it.
  
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