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BOBSCOTT
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Sesame in client server
Sep 9th, 2005 at 2:36pm
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As usual I want more.

I avoided running Sesame in Client Server for a long time because I was so fearful about all the hassles to set it up and configure it. What a dummy I was for waiting! It was the simplest easiest task I have ever done. Less then 10 minutes start to finish getting the server and 5 clients working flawlessly. 

Now that my fears of Sesame in client server have been proven foolish I want to manipulate the equipment I have to best work with sesame so I need more information.

In a windows network environment:

Should I have the Sesame server or client running on the machine with the most memory?

Should I have the Sesame server or client running on the machine that has the hard drive with the fastest seek rate?

also I may have misunderstood this but, In prior posts I believe it was mentioned that it could be beneficial to have a database already accessed from a dummy client. I believe this was because once the data is accessed other clients connect to it quicker.  Is this correct?  if so should a specific form be accessed or just open the application?.

Until setting up a Linux server are there other tweaks that should or could be done to improve Sesame performance on a basic windows network.

Thanks.  Smiley
  

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The Cow
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Re: Sesame in client server
Reply #1 - Sep 9th, 2005 at 2:57pm
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Quote:
As usual I want more.

I avoided running Sesame in Client Server for a long time because I was so fearful about all the hassles to set it up and configure it. What a dummy I was for waiting! It was the simplest easiest task I have ever done. Less then 10 minutes start to finish getting the server and 5 clients working flawlessly. 

Now that my fears of Sesame in client server have been proven foolish I want to manipulate the equipment I have to best work with sesame so I need more information.

In a windows network environment:

Should I have the Sesame server or client running on the machine with the most memory?


Server.

Quote:
Should I have the Sesame server or client running on the machine that has the hard drive with the fastest seek rate?


Server again.

Quote:
also I may have misunderstood this but, In prior posts I believe it was mentioned that it could be beneficial to have a database already accessed from a dummy client. I believe this was because once the data is accessed other clients connect to it quicker.  Is this correct?  if so should a specific form be accessed or just open the application?.


The only access that requires the database to load is the first access. That is why some folks like to pre-load the application. Once it is loaded, it does not matter which forms or databases are opened.

Quote:
Until setting up a Linux server are there other tweaks that should or could be done to improve Sesame performance on a basic windows network.


Sesame is server heavy - meaning that you want the server to be as powerful as possible. If you can, try to free up memory on the server form Sesame's use, by eliminating processes and applications that you do not directly need. Also make sure that the swap file is pre-allocated - do not use dynamic allocation. Set the swap file as large as you can afford (at least twice physical memory). After you are up and running and activity is "typical" - check to see if the Sesame server is swapping. If so, add more RAM.

Also, the Sesame server is multithreaded. That means that, if provided with more than one CPU, Sesame server will take advantage of the additional power in an almost linear way.

If you can, try to optimize network access bottlenecks. For example, making the Sesame server that same machine you are using to be a file server (under MS) will route all of your traffic to the narrowest point. Try to distribute your network load as widely as possible. Try to use switches instead of hubs.

Clients need not be very powerful at all. There are only a handful of operations that can tax the client computer.

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Thanks.  Smiley

  

Mark Lasersohn&&Programmer&&Lantica Software, LLC
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Alec
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Re: Sesame in client server
Reply #2 - Sep 13th, 2005 at 4:46pm
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Another factor to consider is the hard disk in the server. If you are using a normal desktop PC which is a couple of years old it is likely to have an 'old-fashioned' slow hard disk running at 5,400 rpm and with hardly any cache. For a very modest investment this can be replaced with a 7,200 rpm disk with 4MB or even 8MB cache. You could also consider a Serial ATA or a SCSI disk, and these are available with 10,000 rpm spin speeds. These would add a very real performance boost.  You might consider an additional hard disk just for Sesame. On a network with many users the cost/benefit per user could be considerable.
  

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BOBSCOTT
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Re: Sesame in client server
Reply #3 - Sep 13th, 2005 at 6:21pm
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Thanks for the info. Smiley

What is more important, disk seek time or Ram.

At present I am using a machine that has IDE 7200 and a gig of Ram as the server.

I have a unit I can use that has very fast SCSI Swallow drives but limited to low maximum Ram of 256.
 

Hopefully this will be a temporary server. If the application works correctly I should be looking to purchase a new machine running Linux to use as the server.

Thanks
  

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The Cow
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Re: Sesame in client server
Reply #4 - Sep 13th, 2005 at 6:53pm
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What is more important, disk seek time or Ram.


RAM, until you run out (which you should never do). If you do run out of RAM, then hard drive speed and throughput start to matter much more.

Different parts of the system take advantage of different parts of the computer's hardware. But almost every Sesame operation will want RAM.

If you want everything to generally go faster, add RAM or get faster RAM on the server.

If you want loads and saves to go faster, get a faster harddrive.

If you want faster searching and sorting, get a faster CPU on the server.

If you want SBasic compiles, calcs, and code to go faster get a faster CPU on the clients.

If you want Reports and Table View to go faster, get a faster network.

If your forms are especially busy or complicated, get a faster video card for the clients.
  

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BOBSCOTT
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Re: Sesame in client server
Reply #5 - Sep 13th, 2005 at 8:21pm
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Quote:
If you want everything to generally go faster, add RAM or get faster RAM on the server.

If you want loads and saves to go faster, get a faster harddrive.

If you want faster searching and sorting, get a faster CPU on the server.

If you want SBasic compiles, calcs, and code to go faster get a faster CPU on the clients.

If you want Reports and Table View to go faster, get a faster network.

If your forms are especially busy or complicated, get a faster video card for the clients.



Heck, if I upgraded to all that good stuff then all I would need to create a really good application is someone who really knows how to use Sesame and Sbasic properly to create it. Cheesy

???That sounds like Ray

Grin Hmm Is Ray looking for work? I hear from horse lovers that riding is beautiful in California all year round.  Grin

  

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The Cow
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Re: Sesame in client server
Reply #6 - Sep 13th, 2005 at 9:00pm
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The low end machine in our testbed is a pentium 133 Mhz with a very low speed harddrive and a mere 64 Mb of RAM. In almost every case, it does fine.

The machine Sesame is created on is a 500 Mhz Pentium 2 with all of 128 Mb of RAM, and a creaking old harddrive (do they go slower than 5400?)

All in all, Sesame is not a very demanding program.
  

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Re: Sesame in client server
Reply #7 - Sep 13th, 2005 at 9:15pm
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???That sounds like Ray

Grin Hmm Is Ray looking for work? I hear from horse lovers that riding is beautiful in California all year round.  Grin


Grin Luckily, for me otherwise I could be on the next plane to California, Olya doesn't read the forums. Besides what would I do with all my tractors?  Grin

Plus I would need a pair of bolt cutters to cut the chain to the desk, and then I would have to get by Erika who says I can't leave, and then I would probably have to figure out how to drive my car with broken legs after being tossed down the stairs (Erika may look small but that would make her mad, plus you have seen these stairs, it would hurt). You know what I think it is easier to stay here. Grin

Vacation in California, well that is a different story.Grin
  

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Re: Sesame in client server
Reply #8 - Sep 25th, 2005 at 9:41pm
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Wow! Great info, Thanks Mark and all.

Any recommendations for getting more speed out of @formfieldvalue commands? (We use subforms heavily and this seems to be our bottleneck at the moment....especially for remote users working via internet connection)

THanks again,

Steve
  
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The Cow
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Re: Sesame in client server
Reply #9 - Sep 26th, 2005 at 12:03pm
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Wow! Great info, Thanks Mark and all.

Any recommendations for getting more speed out of @formfieldvalue commands? (We use subforms heavily and this seems to be our bottleneck at the moment....especially for remote users working via internet connection)

THanks again,

Steve


What kind of internet connection?
  

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Steve_in_Texas
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Re: Sesame in client server
Reply #10 - Sep 26th, 2005 at 2:25pm
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Broadband Connection, 512K upload speed at the server.

creating about 10 subrecords with 15 fields of data each, takes 30-60 seconds using sbasic while working remotely.

Even working locally, posting data from a multiline LE on the parent form, into the subform takes a couple seconds per record. I'd love to speed it up a bit.

Thanks,
Steve
  
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Re: Sesame in client server
Reply #11 - Sep 26th, 2005 at 3:54pm
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The time to run the following code with a subform with 30 fields, making 99 new records:
Code
Select All
var aa as int
var bb as int
var dd as int
var fn as string
var val as string

writeln(@ServerTime())
for bb = 1 to 99
	  for aa = 1 to 30
		    fn = "a" + @Str(aa)
		    val = "Whatever you say " + @Str(aa)
		    FormFieldValue("NewForm", fn, bb, val);
	  next
	  dd = @FormNewRecord("NewForm")
next
writeln(@serverTime())
 



Using Sesame 1.1.3 Table View: 123 seconds (1.23 seconds per record)
Using Sesame 1.1.3 Form View: 14 seconds (0.14 seconds per record)
Using Sesame 2.0.0 Table View: Less than 1 second (0.004 seconds per record)
Using Sesame 2.0.0 Form View: 15 seconds (0.15 seconds per record)

This a Pentium 2 / 500 Mhz with 128 Meg of RAM.
  

Mark Lasersohn&&Programmer&&Lantica Software, LLC
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Steve_in_Texas
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Re: Sesame in client server
Reply #12 - Sep 26th, 2005 at 4:04pm
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Are those times working remotely, locally, or directly from the server?

Also, can you give us the same data using Sesame ver 1.1.2 so we know what to look forward to in 1.1.3 (or so I can go in and start looking for network issues.)

(1.1.3 isnt out yet, is it?)

Thanks again,
Steve
  
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Re: Sesame in client server
Reply #13 - Sep 26th, 2005 at 5:18pm
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Are those times working remotely, locally, or directly from the server?

Standalone.
Quote:
Also, can you give us the same data using Sesame ver 1.1.2 so we know what to look forward to in 1.1.3 (or so I can go in and start looking for network issues.)
(1.1.3 isnt out yet, is it?)

Thanks again,
Steve


1.1.2 and 1.1.3 are about the same for this.
  

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Re: Sesame in client server
Reply #14 - Sep 27th, 2005 at 12:08am
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Mark,

Thanks for your info. I'll run your same test in all three 'modes' and see what I get.


Steve
  
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