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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Report "History Files" (Read 2592 times)
SpencerWulwick
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Report "History Files"
Oct 29th, 2005 at 4:26pm
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Hi -

I was rather "stunned" when I was looking at my Sesame/Data director using Windows Explorer and found:
    Anticipated_Attendance_2005_08_22_20_42_31.htm
    Anticipated_Attendance_2005_08_22_01_07_06.htm
and similar entries going on and on and on ....

Apparently, every time I previewed (and/or printed, I assume) a recport, a copy of that report was saved as an HTML file.  I have no use for these records and don't want them, which leaves me two questions.

1)  I would imagine that I could delete them, using Windows Explorer, however, I want to be sure that this in no way would compromise my Sesame data. Is it safe to remove them?

2)  Is there a way to prevent this from continuing.  I would hate to have to remember to "clean up" my data directory after every report I run.

Thanks!
« Last Edit: Oct 30th, 2005 at 3:06pm by SpencerWulwick »  

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The Cow
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Re: Report "Droppings"
Reply #1 - Oct 29th, 2005 at 4:59pm
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Quote:
Hi -

I was rather "stunned" when I was looking at my Sesame/Data director using Windows Explorer and found:
    Anticipated_Attendance_2005_08_22_20_42_31.htm
    Anticipated_Attendance_2005_08_22_01_07_06.htm
and similar entries going on and on and on ....

Apparently, every time I previewed (and/or printed, I assume) a recport, a copy of that report was saved as an HTML file.  I have no use for these records and don't want them, which leaves me two questions.

Those are not "copies" of your reports - those are your reports. The image in your browser or the pieces of paper coming out of your printer are representations of those reports.
Quote:
1)  I would imagine that I could delete them, using Windows Explorer, however, I want to be sure that this in no way would compromise my Sesame data. Is it safe to remove them?

Is it safe? That is up to you. Those are your reports. Sesame does not delete any file without your permission. If you have no use for any of the reports you have run - then delete them. For many customers, deleting a report is the same as deleting their financial or tax history - so we don't delete them. They do not contain the report design, nor will they be used by sdesigner or sesame runtime again.
Quote:
2)  Is there a way to prevent this from continuing.  I would hate to have to remember to "clean up" my data directory after every report I run.

It is trivial to delete these files. If you have no use for reports you have generated, simply select 'em and delete 'em. Or if you prefer command line, navigate to the directory and DEL *.htm.

We cannot delete these files upon generation because we have no way of knowing when you are done using them. Many customers generate monthly / weekly (etc...) reports and expect to be able to retain these forever as a permanent record. Many may be generating a report to mount on the web as a web page, or are using a sesame report as part of a larger document. In any case there is no way for Sesame to know when you no longer have use of a report.

Reports in Sesame, like virtually every other program, are a file - not something made of paper.
  

Mark Lasersohn&&Programmer&&Lantica Software, LLC
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SpencerWulwick
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Re: Report "History Files"
Reply #2 - Oct 29th, 2005 at 5:28pm
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Mark -

If it's something I said - or the way I said it - then I apologize most sincerely.

But this is not a "trivial" matter to me.  I do not know of any other program that automatically saves reports that I either preview or print.  

In any event, if you feel it is important that the report be saved - for those people who might want it - then how about an "option" of whether the report is saved ("retained" in file) or not?  That would be much more convenient for me, at least - and I would imagine for some other users as well.

« Last Edit: Oct 30th, 2005 at 3:07pm by SpencerWulwick »  

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walt
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Re: Report "Droppings"
Reply #3 - Oct 29th, 2005 at 6:56pm
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Quote:
Hi -

I was rather "stunned" when I was looking at my Sesame/Data director using Windows Explorer and found:
    Anticipated_Attendance_2005_08_22_20_42_31.htm
    Anticipated_Attendance_2005_08_22_01_07_06.htm
and similar entries going on and on and on ....

Apparently, every time I previewed (and/or printed, I assume) a recport, a copy of that report was saved as an HTML file.  I have no use for these records and don't want them, which leaves me two questions.

1)  I would imagine that I could delete them, using Windows Explorer, however, I want to be sure that this in no way would compromise my Sesame data. Is it safe to remove them?

2)  Is there a way to prevent this from continuing.  I would hate to have to remember to "clean up" my data directory after every report I run.

Thanks!

Veeery interesting Spenser,
I never knew that either. Must have missed it in the manual.  Grin
Thanks!
Walt
  
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Re: Report "Droppings"
Reply #4 - Oct 29th, 2005 at 7:01pm
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Mark -
If it's something I said - or the way I said it - then I apologize most sincerely.

No apology necessary. I am not angry - though I must say that calling Sesame's reports "droppings" (especially in the title of your post) was pretty upsetting.
Quote:
But this is not a "trivial" matter to me.  I do not know of any other program that automatically saves reports that I either preview or print. 

I meant that it is trivially easy to delete them - not that the issue was somehow trivial. Your OS is built for file management. It provides countless tools to help you manage your files. Sesame deletes no files whatsoever. Nor is meant to be a substitute for an OS.
Quote:
In any event, if you feel it is important that the report be saved - for those people who might want it - then how about an "option" of whether the report is saved ("retained" in file) or not?  That would be much more convenient for me, at least - and I would imagine for some other users as well.

It isn't merely a human issue. Sesame has no way of telling whether you are done with that file. For example, lets say you are previewing a report. Sesame generates the file and then launches your browser. Your browser then opens that file, and Sesame goes on operating. How can Sesame tell that you are done in your browser? You may well stay in the browser well after exiting Sesame. Sesame could, inadvertently, delete the file while it is still in use. To determine if you are done, Sesame would have to wait till the browser task is finished, meaning you couldn't look at reports and use Sesame at the same time, nor look at reports side by side. But even if we did wait till the browser finished, what if you wanted to include that report in MSWord, Excel, Access, OpenOffice, or any the other countless applications that can use HTML? So you leave the browser to start up Access (or whatever), and in the meantime Sesame deletes your report.

Generated reports are documents. What you choose to do with the document (print it, preview it, delete it, archive it, use it in a larger document, mount it on the web, rename it, send it via email, extract from it, convert it to XML, etc...) is up to you. It is not some kind of temporary file that Sesame keeps around.

If you are absolutely certain that you have no use for reports after you exit Sesame, start sesame in a batch file with the commands to delete the reports after Sesame exits, then put that batch file as the "target" in your Sesame icon. That way, everytime you exit Sesame, the batch file will delete the .htm files.

Something like:
Code
Select All
c:\Sesame\Program\sesame
del c:\Sesame\Data\*.htm
 



  

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The Cow
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Re: Report "Droppings"
Reply #5 - Oct 29th, 2005 at 7:58pm
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Veeery interesting Spenser,
I never knew that either. Must have missed it in the manual.  Grin
Thanks!
Walt


You did indeed miss it in the manual. It is on page 397 of the user's manual:
Quote:
HTML output files
Every report you "run" using Screen Preview or Printer output, creates the output you request. It also creates an HTML output file in the current working directory. This file will have a filename structured along the following lines:
Schedule_Report_2_2003_11_02_20_47_29.htm
The structure breaks down as follows: Report Name + Report Date (YYYY_MM_DD) + Report Time (HH_MM_SS).htm These files can be opened and worked with in any program that can read HTML format. They can be made into web pages, used in your word processor, or imported into your spreadsheets. The report files will remain in the default report folder until they are moved or deleted, using your operating system file manager. Note: If you do not want your report files to be created in the current working directory, you can change their location using the SESAME_REPORT_PATH environment variable. (See Appendix 2 — Sesame Environment Variables.
  

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walt
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Re: Report "Droppings"
Reply #6 - Oct 29th, 2005 at 8:23pm
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You did indeed miss it in the manual. It is on page 397 of the user's manual:

Indeed?
The User Guide I got with my software sure doesn't have it on pg. 397. Rather, it covers "Securing your Application".  Roll Eyes
  
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NICEBERG
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Re: Report "Droppings"
Reply #7 - Oct 29th, 2005 at 9:43pm
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One thing you might also consider doing is sending your reports to a different folder so you don't "accidentally" delete an important file in the same folder as the reports (there IS a story behind this bit of knowledge).

Add the following line to your autoexec.bat file (or create a sesame.bat file depending on your OS):

SET SESAME_REPORT_PATH=u:/Reports                         (or whatever drive letter and folder name is right for you)

We delete our reports all the time. If we need it again - just re-run it. Although being html files, they take up very little room on the hard drive.
  
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Re: Report "Droppings"
Reply #8 - Oct 29th, 2005 at 9:50pm
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Indeed?
The User Guide I got with my software sure doesn't have it on pg. 397. Rather, it covers "Securing your Application".  Roll Eyes

Indeed? Yes indeed.
There have been several updates since the initial release, licensed users can download the latest software and manuals from:
http://lantica.com/Support/downloads.html
The earlier manuals have the same statement on page 382.
     
  

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Carl Underwood
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Re: Report "Droppings"
Reply #9 - Oct 29th, 2005 at 10:14pm
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Spencer,

I would agree with NICEBERG, in that the best way to deal with the reports is to set "SESAME_REPORT_PATH" system variable to a dedicated directory that is used just for Sesame reports.

The only thing is that I set mine using the info in Appendix 2 of the Sesame User Guide, rather than with a batch file.

Carl
  


Carl Underwood
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NICEBERG
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Re: Report "Droppings"
Reply #10 - Oct 29th, 2005 at 11:34pm
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Thanks Carl - good idea. It'd been awhile since I originally did mine. Our admin was looking for an easy way to do it in XP, since XP doesn't typically use an Autoexec.bat file.
  
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SpencerWulwick
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Re: Report "History Files"
Reply #11 - Oct 30th, 2005 at 3:58am
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Mark -

Well, at least now, I know "what" I said and, once again, I apologize.  To me, it was just a bit of "tongue-in-cheek" humor.  So that you can better undestand, I have been having construction done on my house - on and off - for the past few years.  I've simply gotten in the habit of "labeling" many different things "droppings."  The electrician leaves and I find little bits of wire all over the house ("electrician droppings"); the carpenter leaves and I step on a nail on the floor ("carpenter droppings") and on and on it goes.   So when I ran accross the hundreds of copies of reports "report droppings" just seemed to fit right in with my current "mode."  I certainly didn't mean to be derogatory in any way.  I will try to be more "sensitive" to the way I word my comments in the future.

Now, having said that, I still think it is important that consideration be given to alternative options.  I do not like the reports being left on my computer and I do not like the idea of having to resort to "the olden days" using bat files and other things to circumvent how a program inherintly performs.  I haven't used an Autoexec.bat file in so many years, I would have to relearn it.

I think Sesame is an incredible program and I, personally, want it to succeed beyond everyone's expectations.  To do that, however, I think it must be responsive to the people who use it.

For the past 20 years I have used only 2 database programs (until Sesame):  Q&A DOS and Microsoft Access.  Neither of those programs ever saved reports.  Nor does Access do it now.  Even in Quicken which is a financial program where history is probably more important, reports are not saved automatically.  There is a menu choice so that I can save it if and when I choose to do so and I can either over-write a previous report or save it with a new name.

There were only a few comments from other users; however, they simply seemed to echo my sentiments.  Walt was not aware they were there either - so obviously he didn't need them and the only other discussion was about how to move them from where they were or remove them.  Niceberg said Quote:
We delete our reports all the time. If we need it again - just re-run it.
 Once again, it simply requires an extra effort on the part of the user and I certainly agree that re-running a report takes much less effor than having to remove it.

One approach to making everyone happy is to simply have an overall "preferences" option where you could either select to save reports or you could choose not to - blanketly accross the board - unless and until you choose to change your peference.

The other would be not to save report but to give the user the option of saving it with a simple menu choice.

Another alternative would be that prior to closing a dabase, the user could be given a message "Your reports during this session are about to be deleted.  If you prefer to save them, click here.

The last thing I want to say is that I make these suggestions - and ask for them to be considered - simply to make Sesame a better product for all users.
« Last Edit: Oct 30th, 2005 at 3:10pm by SpencerWulwick »  

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Re: Report "History Files"
Reply #12 - Oct 30th, 2005 at 8:35am
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In Internet Explorer if you go to Tools then Internet Options it has a History settings.  Mine is currently set to delete pages after 2 days.  Imagine if Internet Explorer never deleted the pages thinking you might want to refer back to them.  btw when I run a quicken report it asks me if I want to save which I usually don't.
« Last Edit: Oct 30th, 2005 at 9:10pm by cbt_sj »  
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Re: Report "Droppings"
Reply #13 - Oct 30th, 2005 at 6:43pm
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Indeed? Yes indeed.
There have been several updates since the initial release, licensed users can download the latest software and manuals from:
http://lantica.com/Support/downloads.html
The earlier manuals have the same statement on page 382.
     

Thanks for the clarification. Checked pg. 382 in my manual and recalled that I had indeed read the reference at least twice but simply spaced it out because I was stumped on its relevance and ramifications.

As I understood it (per my notes), unlike Q&A, everytime the user previewed or printed a report a copy would automatically be saved, whether or not it was wanted. I was stumped with how to get all our potential application "customers" to periodically give their system an enema. Just one more thing for them to remember and overlook so I decided to move on until I got to this point in the design.

I have to agree with Spenser and cbt_sj that saving should be offered as an option rather than the default because its not realistic to expect our "SOHO" (small office / home office) users to purge these files on their own, and NONE of them have "system or database administrators" to rely on.

I'm also aware that you've introduced several (?) manual revisions but have refrained from printing any of them out since I haven't had the time or inclination to print out some 700 to 800 sheets and transfer all my notes each time another version appears.

I partially agree with Spenser: "I think Sesame is an incredible program and I, personally, want it to succeed beyond everyone's expectations.  To do that, however, I think it must be responsive to the people who use it."

Where Q&A achieved its fame by including a database manager, word processor and report printer all within one seamlessly integrated package, Sesame still has only the database manager, thereby limiting its simplicity of use and consequently its appeal. Well, there's always version 2, or 3, or 4.  One can hope. Grin
  
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SpencerWulwick
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Re: Report "History Files"
Reply #14 - Oct 30th, 2005 at 6:55pm
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Walt -

Although Sesame doesn't have an integrated word processor, I honestly feel - at this point in software development - that it really isn't necessary (at least not for "Windows" users which is clearly the most predominent OS being used). 

It is so easy to integrate with Word for Windows that having a word processor as part of Sesame would be more cumbersome than it's worth. 

As for reports, that's a different story.  I find the report generator to be one of the most difficult I have ever used and sincerely hope that that the entire process could be simplified.  We've heard that there will be some new report options in Version 2 and I'm  hoping that will help.

  

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