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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Switching to Linux (Read 11971 times)
The Cow
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Switching to Linux
Dec 1st, 2005 at 12:42am
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As Sesame users may (or may not) be aware, a lot of PC users are switching over to Linux. For years it has been assumed that the main reason to switch was security, but a recent poll at DesktopLinux of 3,300 Linux adopters is changing some thinking:
  

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Bob_Hansen
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Re: Switching to Linux
Reply #1 - Dec 1st, 2005 at 6:09am
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Do you think you can explain the charts axiis?  ???

What are 1-10 across the top?
What are 1-10 down the side?

Which is top reason?  #2?  #3?

Rankings top to bottom make no sense by % or by total.
Rankiins left to right make no sense by % or by total.

This looks like an example from one of my favorite statistics books: "How to Lie With Statistics".  This could have been an example that was presented about confusing them with numbers.
=======================
I don't want to get into a debate about the values/drawbacks of either OS.  And I don't doubt that many are moving toward Linux, but I wonder if there is such a chart among MS staff of their answers to why they chose MS vs. Linux.  It would be interesting to see a side by side comparison


  



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Re: Switching to Linux
Reply #2 - Dec 1st, 2005 at 1:16pm
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Bob,
The numbers are the rankings of why they converted from 1st (most important reason) to 10th (least important reason). The numbers below each percentage are numbers of votes.

The highest ranking reasons are the one with the most votes in the first few columns: Competition (row 8) and Employee demand (row 10).

Once you are aware that 1st represents most important, and 10th represents least important, I am not sure how this chart could be made any more clear, without leaving out pertinent details (as MS is currently accused of doing in their highly inaccurate and manipulative "Get the facts" campaign).

I think the surveyers here chose to simply present the numbers - as is, without attempting to draw conclusions. I believe the categories are likely in the same order as they were presented on the survey.
  

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The Cow
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Re: Switching to Linux
Reply #3 - Dec 1st, 2005 at 2:58pm
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Quote:
I don't want to get into a debate about the values/drawbacks of either OS.  And I don't doubt that many are moving toward Linux, but I wonder if there is such a chart among MS staff of their answers to why they chose MS vs. Linux.  It would be interesting to see a side by side comparison


I have never seen such a chart that was not presented by MS. But, MS is currently presenting a survey that shows that MS has a lower cost of ownership than Linux. I find this a strange barometer in that depending on decisions made by the consumer, either OS could be free, or astronomically expensive.

I would like to note that the chart above is not "why they chose Linux vs. MS" - it merely illustrates why they chose Linux and is interesting in that it demonstrates a major shift in the perception of Linux away from "security" and towards "end user demand" and "competive edge".

It is specific to "desktop" use, as opposed to "server use", which may be skewing the numbers away from security - which is no where near the same issue on the desktop as it is on a web server.

Linux has not made inroads into desktop use nearly as well as they have into server use. So far the real competition has been between Apache (the web server) and IIS. In their "Get the facts" campaign, MS rarely mentions Linux by name, but rather specifies "Open Source Software" - which may well be referring to Apache as opposed to Linux.
  

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Bob_Hansen
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Re: Switching to Linux
Reply #4 - Dec 1st, 2005 at 4:25pm
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Quote:
Once you are aware that 1st represents most important, and 10th represents least important
OK, I think I got it now.  Read down the first column on the left and ignore the details in the table on the right side. 

I can do that!  Thanks......
  



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Re: Switching to Linux
Reply #5 - Aug 12th, 2006 at 4:14pm
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I am planning on looking again at Linux, but this time may really get into it.  It appears that these may be the most common distributors.  I am currently leaning toward OpenSuSe, but wanted to hear from current Linux users to see if you can point me toward any comparison charts.  I could find none. 

Here is the list I am looking at rightnow:
BSD
CentOS
Debian GNU/Linux
Fedora Project
Freespire
Linux Megapack
Mandriva Linux
Slackware
SuSE
Ubuntu/ Kubuntu
Xandros

Any Pro/Con comments for any of these, or others, will be appreciated.
Thanks for your time.
  



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The Cow
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Re: Switching to Linux
Reply #6 - Aug 12th, 2006 at 4:23pm
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Be aware that  BSD is not a flavor of Linux, though it is a well regarded flavor of Unix. Sesame will not run on it.

I run SuSE 9.3 (primarily). I have heard some not so good things about SuSE 10.1
  

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Re: Switching to Linux
Reply #7 - Aug 12th, 2006 at 4:25pm
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Bob_Hansen wrote on Aug 12th, 2006 at 4:14pm:
I am planning on looking again at Linux, but this time may really get into it.  It appears that these may be the most common distributors.  I am currently leaning toward OpenSuSe, but wanted to hear from current Linux users to see if you can point me toward any comparison charts.  I could find none. 

Here is the list I am looking at rightnow:
BSD
CentOS
Debian GNU/Linux
Fedora Project
Freespire
Linux Megapack
Mandriva Linux
Slackware
SuSE
Ubuntu/ Kubuntu
Xandros

Any Pro/Con comments for any of these, or others, will be appreciated.
Thanks for your time.


Not really a single table, but tons of info:
http://distrowatch.com/
  

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Re: Switching to Linux
Reply #8 - Aug 12th, 2006 at 5:23pm
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Bob,
I haven't been able to find a general comparison chart. There are too many features to compare and too many distributions. If you could narrow down the feature you'd like to compare...

Anyways, a wise course of action would be to download the "live" CD/DVD of distributions you are interested in. These should tell you whether the distribution gets along with and recognizes your hardware well.

Live CDs:
http://www.frozentech.com/content/livecd.php
« Last Edit: Aug 12th, 2006 at 9:22pm by The Cow »  

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Re: Switching to Linux
Reply #9 - Aug 13th, 2006 at 12:51am
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Thanks for the links Mark.  Not a lot of free time, so I doubt if I will be able to download from many multiple sites.  But nothing is ever easy, will just have to dig in, do some homework, and decide which ones I want to test out.

Suppose I make multiple partitions, one for each Linux OS. 
Can I then install applications on a common drive, or will I need to install the applications on each OS drive?
  



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Re: Switching to Linux
Reply #10 - Aug 13th, 2006 at 1:45am
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Bob_Hansen wrote on Aug 13th, 2006 at 12:51am:
Thanks for the links Mark.  Not a lot of free time, so I doubt if I will be able to download from many multiple sites.  But nothing is ever easy, will just have to dig in, do some homework, and decide which ones I want to test out.

Suppose I make multiple partitions, one for each Linux OS. 
Can I then install applications on a common drive, or will I need to install the applications on each OS drive?


I wouldn' t install anything until you have picked out a distribution. I'd try out some of the big name live CDs. These don't install anything on your harddrive, they run from memory and the CD. But they'll give you a good idea if that distribution likes your network card, your video card, and etc...

BTW: Because most Linuxes can read (and many can write) your MS partitions, you can also use a good live CD as a "rescue disk" for when MS refuses to boot.

If you think it is wise, you could actually install several Linuxes. Most will redivide the partions as needed. You can make another partition for applications, if you want, but most of the linuxes will be able to use each other's partitions. I doubt you will want to have a bunch of linuxes on different partitions.

Unix, in general, does not treat partitions and harddrives like MS does. Generally, linux will want its own partition/filesystem. It might want a second partition for swap space. Where MS treats harddrives as "drive letters" each one starting a new filesystem root, linux will incorporate all further partitions/drives as directories under the same filesystem. If you have multiple harddrives you will soon forget that they are there because linux will tread them all like on big harddrive. Only when you first setup will you have to treat them as separate harddrives.

By the way, this doesn't just go for harddrives. Linux can treat the harrdrives in other computers as directories in its own filesystem. It treats usb key drives the same way. CDs and DVDs too. Under Unix "everything is a file or directory" (actually even directories are a kind of file).
  

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Re: Switching to Linux
Reply #11 - Aug 13th, 2006 at 1:57am
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Thanks again Mark for the extra cautions.   

My thought was to load a couple of Linux OS to test out differences.  Hoping I could load some apps, like Sesame for example, and check out any differences. 

Since all storage devices are treated as files, does that mean there may be a "registry" type of file, but that is user defined vs. Windows?  So, if it is user defined, then all OS systems could use the same "registry"? 

I know Sesame does not use registry files, is that because Linux is more INI oriented vs. registry structures? 

Could different Linux OS on same machine use the same "registry" ?

  



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Re: Switching to Linux
Reply #12 - Aug 13th, 2006 at 2:27am
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Bob_Hansen wrote on Aug 13th, 2006 at 1:57am:
Thanks again Mark for the extra cautions.   

My thought was to load a couple of Linux OS to test out differences.  Hoping I could load some apps, like Sesame for example, and check out any differences. 

You can run Sesame on a Live CD distribution. Just drop the linux version on a key drive. Boot the live CD and copy Sesame off of the key drive. That would not only be a good test of Sesame, but would also test how well the distribution works with USB.
Quote:
Since all storage devices are treated as files, does that mean there may be a "registry" type of file, but that is user defined vs. Windows?  So, if it is user defined, then all OS systems could use the same "registry"? 

Not sure what you mean. As far as I know, Linuxes do not use anything like a registry. Instead they use a ton of configuration files, most of them are stored in the /etc directory. The applications typically also have configuration files that are usually stored with the app. Usually (but no where near always) third party applications will be put in the /usr/local directory.
Quote:
I know Sesame does not use registry files, is that because Linux is more INI oriented vs. registry structures? 

And because the registry is a real mess on Windows. It was a terrible idea poorly implemented. Even MS is shying away from it in favor of using XML files to store important settings. Too many problems with so many eggs in only one basket, especially security problems.
Quote:
Could different Linux OS on same machine use the same "registry" ?

In theory, if there was such a thing. The OS software will primarily use files in the /etc directory. Applications will typically have their own files in their own directories, usually under /usr/local or /usr/share.

Again, if I were picking out a new linux, I'd download and burn some of the major player's live CDs and give them a try. I'd probably pick the one that recognizes my hardware with the least difficulty.

There are two areas where linux really lags behind MS: hardware drivers and business software. The hardware makers typically make a linux driver as an afterthought, and in many cases have been prohibited from making linux drivers under contracts with MS - they get inside info about making drivers from MS in exchange. So, sometimes, when you install a linux, you will find that you will have a hard time getting it to work with your hardware.

In the last few years its been getting a lot better. The last install I did (on this very laptop), pretty much fell right into place and everything just worked.

As to the business software, OpenOffice (and several other packages) have gone a long way toward closing that gap, but Unix is primarily a developer's OS. It was made for developers to develop software on. As such it is very good at that. It is also a very good system for developing graphics, and video, and 3D, and etc..., and its a very good server OS. But, it still has a ways to go when it comes to writing a business letter.
  

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Re: Switching to Linux
Reply #13 - Aug 14th, 2006 at 6:49pm
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Over the past year I have worked with several linux flavors, each one had certain problems that was to hard to deal with, but I found three which work really well with Sesame, "Suse 9.1 Personal", "Mandrivia 2006", "Xandros 3.02 Business", little problems would crop up, like once I unplugged a usb flash drive and then could not get Suse to boot, several had problems installing the boot manager, I finally learned to install Mandivia first and then the others that way I never had a problem with the boot manager, I have finally settled on Xandros, it has Xandros networks where I can download most anything I want, and it will allow me to download and install  from oter sites also. Sesame runs flawlessly on it with minor changes to the programming, the only real problem I have had, and it was true with all the different flavors was the print drivers, my older printer has no drivers listed for it and I have to use a generic which after a days work and a lot of thought I have it printing almost as good as windows, the other problem is with the browser working in Sesame in preview mode it, took several e-mails with Ray and alot of reading and then downloading netscape, running Sesame in a terminal but now it works. I'm been in Xandros now for my second full week, I really like this operating system for the desktop, its solid, one thing I have learned is linux has no mercy, commands and syntax has to be error free, you will not get a help windows telling you what you done wrong. Its like working with a super "DOS"but it gets easier each day. I have found that Microsoft Office, and Sesame will work through crossover office which comes with the business version, I prefer Koffice over open office to me its closer to microsoft office then openoffice, right now I using openoffice 2.03  it just came out I'll let you know how I like it, its has a relational database with it now. Ubunta would not run Sesame without finding a library file that does not come with it. Simply mephis now ver 6.** had lots of problems just loading, I found it to be unstable.If I had to pick just two my first choice would be Xandros and then Suse. Sesame slowed down to a snails pace when loading the db file in "Mandrivia 2006" I never was able to find the problem, I really like mandivia also but couldn't handle the 10-20 minute load time on the db, this only showed up in Mandivia 2006, Mandrake linux 10.2 did not have this problem. Hope this  saves you some time.
  
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Re: Switching to Linux
Reply #14 - Aug 14th, 2006 at 7:18pm
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Great information ProudPoppy.  Much appreciated. 

I just finished setting up a hard drive on a PC for installing Linux.  Not sure which one yet, but hoped to download a few later today. 
Your input will be helpful as I decide which ones I should try.

I have no problem with a "super DOS", I work in DOS everyday and prefer the flexibility of using switches, and the quick response. 
In a few days I hope to be able to provide some feedback of my own. 

Thanks to The Cow and proudpoppy for your inputs, stay tuned.........
  



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