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BOBSCOTT
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Re: Switching to Linux
Reply #15 - Aug 21st, 2006 at 9:09pm
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Bob,

How’s the Linux progressing?  Keep us posted!

Thanks
  

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Re: Switching to Linux
Reply #16 - Aug 21st, 2006 at 9:44pm
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No progress to report.  I had resurrected an unused machine for this purpose.  But I was having a problem writing to the CD that I wanted to download to.  Decided to go to another machine and download/burnburn the CD there.  That worked OK.  Then put the CD into the Linux box and found why it was unused.  It has two CD units, one is Read Only, the other was Read/Write that would not write as noted earlier.  But now I found that neither would read!  Not a lot of free time to experiment, so this will be a while until I get one of the CD units ro read, and then make sure that is the one I can boot from.

So, I will provide some feedback when available, but this is a spare time effort that may take a while......
  



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Re: Switching to Linux
Reply #17 - Oct 10th, 2006 at 12:20am
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Just finished installation of SuSE 10.0 on system.  Got latest updates installed, so may actually have 10.1.
SuSE installed a multi-boot menu, resized a 30Gb partiition on a slave hard drive, and did not lose any of the files on the master drive or on the repartitioned smaller windows drive.

Terminology is much different.  Took me half hour to find out how to log out/restart.  Took another half hour to find a command prompt window.  Have the SUSE Linux 10 Bible, but they must think I am an agnostic.  Aaargh!

Won't bother you with all the problems I had to get here.  Mostly hardware on my end, not all related to Linux installs.  Looing how to share Windows workstations with SUSE workstation.  Looking to install WINE to use with some Windows applications also.

Should have more to report in next few weeks.
  



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Re: Switching to Linux
Reply #18 - Oct 10th, 2006 at 9:51pm
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Bob,

I use a Sams book called SUSE Linux unleashed. It is written well and is very helpful. I find the Sams books tend to be written for an average reader not an academic, so they are a little easier to follow.

If you get a chance check it out.

Robert

  

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Re: Switching to Linux
Reply #19 - Oct 10th, 2006 at 10:42pm
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If you have any specific questions, I'd be happy to answer them as best as I can. I run SuSE 9.3, and have used Unix as my primary operating system for twenty-some years.
  

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Re: Switching to Linux
Reply #20 - Oct 11th, 2006 at 6:12am
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Thanks Mark, you may regret the offer.

Here are a few items"
1.  Printer set up.
I added a printer HP2600, was in the list.  Printer is an IP address on the network.  Printer seemed to install OK.
Sent Test Page, job goes into print queue, but never comes out.  I can ping to the Printer IP.  I turned off Firewall.  I am in root group.  I tried adding another identical printer, both using CUPS, with same result.  Then I tried to remove one/both printers, but Remove is greyed out.  Checking SUSE forums, it looked like I needed to be in group "lpadmin".  No such group.  So I joined the "lp" group with no success.  There is a group "ntadmin" but I did not join that group.
Questions:  How to remove Printers? / How to install printer so it does print from the queue.

2.  I downloaded WINE and want to install.  How to install?  Is there a default "Program Files" folder?  Can I make my own?  I thought I installed WINE but cannot find an icon, did a Search for "wine" with no success.

3.  I have Sesame Linux to install.   Suggestions on how to install that?  Hmmm, I bet the instructions are in the Sesame documentation, I will check that out.  By now some of the terminology is familar to me.

4.  When logging in, I get GAIM on desktop waiting for login.  I have no interest in using this.  Want to stop ir from starting.  Where is the "StartUp" folder and the Registry "Run" secttion and the WIN.INI Run/Load commands?  In other words, how do locate and edit the "startup" routines?  I need to learn the entire bootup/login/startup sequence.  Are there some default login scripts for all users and for individual users?

5.  I am able to connect to Internet with Firefox and have also downloaded Thunderbird as email client that I use in Windows.  How do I install that program.  I unzipped the tz file into a folder, and clicked on Thunderbird, and it looks like it is going to start up ok, but would prefer to have it installed in a parent folder like Program Files as noted above for WINE.  Need to know the folder contents.

6.  By accident I was able to browse to a Windows workstation by entering the IP and was then able to drag and drop from Windows folders into SUSE.  Need to learn how to map those drives.

7.  I installed PUTTY on windows, was able to connect to SUSE terminal.  But can only use bash.  Wanted to make Remote connection so I could actually run SUSE system from Windows workstation like I do now with Remote Administrator/Net Meeting/pcAnyWhere.  What commands do I need to enter with bash to get to the GNAME desktop?

These are questions just off the top of my head, not at the SuSE 10.0 system right now. 
I am using GNOME as Desktop Manager with Nautilus File Manager.  Things have been stable, only problem I have seen is closing Banshee CD player, hangs and need to Force Quit, but have not had to use CTL-ALT-DEL yet.  And no BSOD.  That is promising


If you have the time to tutor, I can be the most demanding student.
Thanks again for your offer to help ..... still willing to do this?

If yes, should another forum be set up so different subjects can have their own sections.  If you respond to above we will aready have seven different topics.  I think that many others will be interested in learning along with me.

No rush Mark, I am still picking away in spare time .....
« Last Edit: Oct 11th, 2006 at 8:18am by Bob_Hansen »  



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Re: Switching to Linux
Reply #21 - Oct 11th, 2006 at 7:35am
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3.  I have Sesame Linux to install.   Suggestions on how to install that?  Hmmm, I bet the instructions are in the Sesame documentation, I will check that out.  By now some of the terminology is familar to me.
I did find the README file in the Sesame Linux package.  Seems OK but would like to have an organized tree, so understanding basic tree, like Program Files folder location will be a good place to start. 

I need to come up with a structure at the beginning, some ideas would be helpful.  Not familiar yet with security.  Will installation folder location be limited only to me or to owner or to all users of the system?  Does security trickle down the tree branches inheriting the parent branch security or does each branch security need to be redefined?
  



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Re: Switching to Linux
Reply #22 - Oct 11th, 2006 at 12:02pm
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Bob_Hansen wrote on Oct 11th, 2006 at 7:35am:
Quote:
3.  I have Sesame Linux to install.   Suggestions on how to install that?  Hmmm, I bet the instructions are in the Sesame documentation, I will check that out.  By now some of the terminology is familar to me.
I did find the README file in the Sesame Linux package.  Seems OK but would like to have an organized tree, so understanding basic tree, like Program Files folder location will be a good place to start. 

I need to come up with a structure at the beginning, some ideas would be helpful.  Not familiar yet with security.  Will installation folder location be limited only to me or to owner or to all users of the system?  Does security trickle down the tree branches inheriting the parent branch security or does each branch security need to be redefined?



Unix is multiuser (really multiuser). That means that you (the system administrator) need to decide the scope of access for any particular package you want to install.

If you want every user to be able to use Sesame, you should install the Sesame directory tree under the /usr/local directory. Check if the users (including yourself when not being the sysdamin, root, or "super user") have "/usr/local" in their paths.

Under Unix, executables are typically layed out in the following directories, based on the use of the executable:

/bin - minimal system executables
/usr/bin - system executables and distribution executables
/usr/local - user installed executables
/usr/PackageName - user installed large systems (much bigger than Sesame size)
/usr/share - shared data
/etc - system configuration files
/home - user directories
/home/UserName - a user's directories

These are merely traditional. Unlike MS, there are no hard fixed rules, you can set up your system any way that makes sense to you. Each of the directories above, of course, will have subdirectories containing numerous files and directories.

Typically, any particular user, other than "root", will only have write access to their own directories. If you want to use Sesame and you believe it is unlikely that any other user will want to use it, simply install it under your own directory: /home/BobHansen. If you believe it likely that you will have more than one executable that is "your's", you may want to set up: /home/BobHansen/bin and set up Sesame under that - adding the path to your executables path.

Generally, to set up very controlled access on Unix is much easier than on Windows in that each user will only have read access to anything outside of their directories. If you want to have very strict security, you can set up "restricted shells" for your users. This will prevent a user from even leaving their own directory, nevermind reading or writing to any other directories.
  

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BOBSCOTT
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Re: Switching to Linux
Reply #23 - Oct 11th, 2006 at 2:33pm
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Mark,

Would you use a /etc/profile for the user initialization login script so it is standard to all users or would you have a custom one for each user?

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Re: Switching to Linux
Reply #24 - Oct 11th, 2006 at 3:35pm
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BOBSCOTT wrote on Oct 11th, 2006 at 2:33pm:
Mark,

Would you use a /etc/profile for the user initialization login script so it is standard to all users or would you have a custom one for each user?

Thanks


Depending on which shell the user prefers, I would start with a standard profile (or .rc file) and copy it to the user's home directory, then let it change over time as the user's needs change.
  

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Re: Switching to Linux
Reply #25 - Oct 11th, 2006 at 4:54pm
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Bob_Hansen wrote on Oct 11th, 2006 at 6:12am:
Thanks Mark, you may regret the offer.

Here are a few items"
1.  Printer set up.
I added a printer HP2600, was in the list.  Printer is an IP address on the network.  Printer seemed to install OK.
Sent Test Page, job goes into print queue, but never comes out.  I can ping to the Printer IP.  I turned off Firewall.  I am in root group.  I tried adding another identical printer, both using CUPS, with same result.  Then I tried to remove one/both printers, but Remove is greyed out.  Checking SUSE forums, it looked like I needed to be in group "lpadmin".  No such group.  So I joined the "lp" group with no success.  There is a group "ntadmin" but I did not join that group.
Questions:  How to remove Printers? / How to install printer so it does print from the queue.

Getting a networked printer setup is either going to go very well and be nearly automatic, or will be a remarkable pain, depending on the printer and the computer actually controlling it (and what protocols it speaks). Instead of using the setup provided with SuSE, use the administrative web page provided by CUPS.
Quote:
2.  I downloaded WINE and want to install.  How to install?  Is there a default "Program Files" folder?  Can I make my own?  I thought I installed WINE but cannot find an icon, did a Search for "wine" with no success.

I can't help you much with wine, I never use it. But, you should install it using the SuSE installation tools, these will be on the System menu. I use Yast for installations, but I think later version of SuSE have switched to Zen. Many Linux programs will not automatically provide an icon (including Sesame).
Quote:
3.  I have Sesame Linux to install.   Suggestions on how to install that?  Hmmm, I bet the instructions are in the Sesame documentation, I will check that out.  By now some of the terminology is familar to me.

The instructions to install Sesame as a shared program are provided. You can, however install Sesame anywhere you want simply be "detarring" the file. Sesame will run happily in any directory with any directory structure you like. Do not install anything in any of the system directories, such as /usr/bin, /bin, /etc. If you want to share Sesame with other users, place it in /usr/local. Otherwise, place it in directory of its own under your home directory as a regular user, not as root.
Quote:
4.  When logging in, I get GAIM on desktop waiting for login.  I have no interest in using this.  Want to stop ir from starting.  Where is the "StartUp" folder and the Registry "Run" secttion and the WIN.INI Run/Load commands?  In other words, how do locate and edit the "startup" routines?  I need to learn the entire bootup/login/startup sequence.  Are there some default login scripts for all users and for individual users?

This is really just a login procedure, not a boot procedure. In your home directory go to a command line and issue the command "ls -a" that will show you all of the files in your direrctory. There should be some like: .cshrc or .profile or .bashrc, these are the startup scripts for your shell and control what starts when you login, and where your executable paths are, etc...

To stop a particular program from starting, though, find its icon on the toolbar (probably the bottom right corner), right click on it - much like Windows. If you are having problems with interface and terminology, you might want to swicth to KDE instead of Gnome, it is more like MS.
Quote:
5.  I am able to connect to Internet with Firefox and have also downloaded Thunderbird as email client that I use in Windows.  How do I install that program.  I unzipped the tz file into a folder, and clicked on Thunderbird, and it looks like it is going to start up ok, but would prefer to have it installed in a parent folder like Program Files as noted above for WINE.  Need to know the folder contents.

Firefox and such, come with an installation that provides icons and start menu entries and will install firefox for universal use. I think you may have installed the wrong file.
Quote:
6.  By accident I was able to browse to a Windows workstation by entering the IP and was then able to drag and drop from Windows folders into SUSE.  Need to learn how to map those drives.

Unix does not use "mapping" in the drive letter sense. Instead you map a drive as a path or directory name. This is not just networked drives but includes all drives. For example, if I plug a USB key drive in, it becomes "/media/usbdisk".
Quote:
7.  I installed PUTTY on windows, was able to connect to SUSE terminal.  But can only use bash.  Wanted to make Remote connection so I could actually run SUSE system from Windows workstation like I do now with Remote Administrator/Net Meeting/pcAnyWhere.  What commands do I need to enter with bash to get to the GNAME desktop?

Windows does not natively have software on it to be abble to display X11 applications (like your Linux desktop). You can either get a X11 server for Windows (like Hummingbird) or you can use one of the universal desktop systems like VNC.
Quote:
These are questions just off the top of my head, not at the SuSE 10.0 system right now. 
I am using GNOME as Desktop Manager with Nautilus File Manager.  Things have been stable, only problem I have seen is closing Banshee CD player, hangs and need to Force Quit, but have not had to use CTL-ALT-DEL yet.  And no BSOD.  That is promising

In Linux, even if you manage to lock up the user interface, you have not actually locked up the operating system. They are very separate. So you probably will never actually crash Linux itself and need to reboot, no matter any application does. I have, on rare occasion crashed X11 (the GUI), but I can't recall ever crashing any version of Unix in twenty five years of trying.

  

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Re: Switching to Linux
Reply #26 - Oct 11th, 2006 at 10:28pm
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Thanks for info Mark, still have some confusion, so I will be back as I respond to the info you have provided.

A few more questions:

1.  How to create a shortcut to put on Desktop or on Applications Menu?
2.  How to create a "batch file"?  What commands are acceptable?
3.  How to create a shortcut that calls a batch file?
4.  How to change "dir" colors used by LS_COLORS?  I did the printout database, but only got file contents.   How to change the settings?  Where is reference to colors and their codes?

RE separate processing, I have used Putty to make multiple Terminal connections, each one seems invisible to the other, and the actual SUSE workstation gave no indication that two other workstations were connected and using the machine.  Getting a better feeling about stability. 

  



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Re: Switching to Linux
Reply #27 - Oct 12th, 2006 at 1:19am
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Bob_Hansen wrote on Oct 11th, 2006 at 10:28pm:
Thanks for info Mark, still have some confusion, so I will be back as I respond to the info you have provided.

A few more questions:

1.  How to create a shortcut to put on Desktop or on Applications Menu?

In KDE (Gnome is probably very similar), simply drag the icon from the whatever file manager you are using onto the desktop, or right click on the icon and select the appropriate "copy to" or "move to" command.
Quote:
2.  How to create a "batch file"?  What commands are acceptable?

In Unix, these are called shell scripts. All commands are acceptable, and the shell itself has about 100 commands that are also acceptable. After building the shell script (traditionally with a postfix of ".sh", though extensions mean nothing to Unix, so you can use whatever you want), you can invoke it by saying "sh yourscrpit.sh" or you can set the file permission to execute ("chmod +x yourscript.sh") and invoke it by filename. Shell scripting in Unix is very powerful compared to DOS and has most of the constructs available to modern scripting languages.
Quote:
3.  How to create a shortcut that calls a batch file?

See above, exactly the same as with any other executable.
Quote:
4.  How to change "dir" colors used by LS_COLORS?  I did the printout database, but only got file contents.   How to change the settings?  Where is reference to colors and their codes?

Sorry, I don't know. There is a control script for it in the /etc directory. But I always turn it off completely, so I don't have any experience with its settings. To turn it off you can set the environment variable: LS_OPTION=--color=none.

BTW: are you aware of the "man" command? And, just as useful the "man -k" or "apropos" command. These are often your best guides to the Unix commands.

Quote:
RE separate processing, I have used Putty to make multiple Terminal connections, each one seems invisible to the other, and the actual SUSE workstation gave no indication that two other workstations were connected and using the machine.  Getting a better feeling about stability. 

Running true multiuser multiprocess is built into Unix. It is much more spritely than any MS OS when it comes to task switching. This is especially true if you move off of the cumbersome Intel chips, which by way of ancient compatibility are still poor at task switcing. The old Motorola 680x0 series were wonderful for task switching, as were the Sparc and Mips, HP-Risc, and DEC Alphas. Even at much slower Mhz numbers than modern Intel chips (often < 100 Mhz) not-Intel could support multiple users / tasks with far less latency.

Though, the real champ for that was DEC VAX running VMS. When I was at Bailey Controls we would often have dozens of users and hundreds of tasks happily running at once, and you could barely tell the difference in performance between 20 users and 2.
  

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Re: Switching to Linux
Reply #28 - Oct 12th, 2006 at 5:07am
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1. How to create a shortcut to put on Desktop or on Applications Menu?
In KDE (Gnome is probably very similar), simply drag the icon from the whatever file manager you are using onto the desktop, or right click on the icon and select the appropriate "copy to" or "move to" command.

One of the problems that I have is the lack of icons and "standard" folders.  I think that I have installed three programs, but cannot find icons for them.  I am looking under "Applications" on the "Task Bar", there is a tree of applications in many branches, some programs in multiple branches.  That is OK, but I cannot find applications I have installed, and can't find this "Application Tree" on the "Task Bar".  May need to change from GNOME to KDE.  But haven't figured out how to do that yet.  BTW, I do have YaST, but still learning one icon at a time, in spare moments.

Quote:
BTW: are you aware of the "man" command? And, just as useful the "man -k" or "apropos" command. These are often your best guides to the Unix commands.
Yes, I have been using "man" and "info".  But you need to call the command as a switch, and when you don't know the command it is tough.  I have been reading thru many of the commands, but struggling.  I have now started using "dir" and "ls" from / down to get familiar with contents of folders.  I did find an info document that goes through the "init" and "rc" process.  I also have a few more reference books and manuals, but nothing yet that I am happy with.  Not content to just add files, I want to understand how it works under the covers, so this will be a slow process for me.

I am expecting to need to support Linux in the future so I must really learn the OS and be able to develop my own work habits, architecture, storage and naming methods, etc.  I realistically don't expect to have 25 years of Microsoft knowledge replaced in 1-2 days, lots of work ahead of me.

Thanks again Mark for your inputs and your patience.
  



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Re: Switching to Linux
Reply #29 - Oct 12th, 2006 at 12:42pm
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May need to change from GNOME to KDE.  But haven't figured out how to do that yet.


The easiest way is to logout from Gnome. The desktop will go away and a login screen will appear. At the bottom of the login screen there will be a menu button that allows you to select which desktop you want to use. There are usually about a dozen or so available. These, by the way, are each nearly the equivalent as all any MS OS. So learning any one of them is not the same as learning Linux.

When learning Unux, separate (actually and conceptually) the user interfaces and the underlying OS.
  

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