Quote:

I don't want to hiack your thread, but I can't ignore this because it looks like it will be very useful to some things I need to do.  But I'm having a bit of trouble parsing it.  What does the "or" condition look to and do?

Erika -

The reason I put the age/years calculation in the on form entry is that I do want to see the correct age even if I am just looking at a form and I don't want to have to remember to click on a "button" (which I could easily put there) to calculate the age.  I sometimes do want to simply scan through a stack of records to check age.  (I also have it on the on the birthdate/anniversary elements exit event, so that it will automatically appear instantly, should I enter a birthdate or anniversary).  In that case I do want the last update field executed but only because I made a change to a bound element.

As for putting last update programming in "on element change" I have about 84 layout elements.  I want the last update field populated for all but nine of the elements (all of which are unbound).

If, as you suggested, I "put the code in the events to which I actually want to respond" I would have to program 75 of the 84 elements.  This is not the worst thing in the world but it is certainly a "one-time" nuicance" for each of my databases (since most of them have a similar situation).

You said: Quote:


So, I have a REQUEST, for program enhancement (unless I am overlooking something).

Why NOT preclude an unboud field from triggering a program event - but ONLY in the "on form change" programming?

In your example of having a combo box respond, I only need it to respond when I click on (or enter) that particular LE ... so I would only need the programming executed on the element entry event.

My other unbound fields are all command buttons that cause programming to be triggered but without affecting any of the bound layout elements on the form (such as looking up a zip-code, retrieving an alternate record, printing an envelope etc.).

I cannot think of a single instance when I would NEED a click on an unbound field to trigger my on form change event programming.

And by the way, until you pointed this out I hadn't realized that there was another problem.  Even if a record does NOT have a birthdate/anniversary to trigger on form change programming, clicking on any one of my command buttons will.

Alternatively, should there be a reason to trigger on form change event programming, then how about a "switch" built into code that would allow the user to enter a programming statement in the on form change event and tell Sesame whether or not to include unbound fields?

Thanks!

CAPTAIN INFINITY -

No need to apologize for "hacking" my code.  If it is something you are able to use, I am delighted.

If not @isblank(Birthdate) then

     Age = @YEAR(@DATE)-@YEAR(BirthDate) - ((@MONTH(@DATE) < @MONTH(BirthDate))
     or (@MONTH(@DATE) = @MONTH(BirthDate) AND @DOM(@DATE) < @DOM(BirthDate)))
 

To tell you the truth, I obtained this code from Symantec Technical Support (when there was such a thing) for use in Q&A about what - 20 years ago?  lol  ... and it works like a charm in Sesame.

As best I can recall the only time I had a problem with "earlier" code I had created was if it was the same date (day of month) as the birthday.  In other words the age would calculate properly if you checked it either a day before (or earlier) or a day after (or later) than the actual birthdate.  But, if it was on the actual birthdate it would be off by one year.

This programming was designed to fix that.  When it was provided, I understood it perfectly.  Now I only understand it in theory and am not able to disect it without an extraordinary amount of effort.

The way it is written, it incorporates ("unseen" in the code) if/then conditions.

But I do offer you this.  Here's a way to test it.  I just went to my birthdate field - today - December 30, 2005.

If I enter a birthdate of December 31, 2000, the age is shown as 4 (because indeed the person is a day shy of being 5 years old)

If I enter a birthdate of December 30, 2000, the age is shown as 5 (because indeed, today is the day the person reached age 5)

If I enter a birthdate of December 29, 2000, the age is shown as 5 (because indeed the person has passed reaching the age of 5)

So I have checked the date of birth as being (1) a day (or more) before the actual birthdate, (2) on the actual birthdate or (3) a day (or more) after the actual birthdate - and it calculates correctly.  I cannot think of a single "example" that would "slip through" the programming, except that:

I DO NOT know whether this works correctly for someone born on February 29th of a leap year; however, I never had a single instance where I needed to calculate based on February 29 and if needed, it should be easy enough to modify the programming for that particular date.

I know that I did not answer your question precisely but hope that the information I did provide will help you.  

If it does not then please be specific about what you want to do.

I have numerous other (old Q&A) programming statements that do "math" calculations based on a date (of birth, anniversary, fixed date, etc.)

I do hope that this response will help you and wish you good luck.

By the way, just for "accuracy", I do not believe that Q&A had an @isblank function so the "lead in" was probably something like:  If birthdate /=  (not blank)       or      If birthdate <>"" (less than or greater than nothing).  While that might work in Sesame, as well, it is not recommended - so Erika has told me and told me and told me ... lol

Quote:


Your example is exactly the type of situation I mean. You want a bound value to change because you altered an unbound value. It is the changing of the unbound value that triggers the On Form Change program which sets the bound value. If the change to Age doesn't trigger the progamming, the Senior Citizen Discount never gets set.

Quote:


Infinity,

The code subtracts the years. It then subtracts 1 if the person has not yet reached their birthday this year or zero if they have. The OR condition is boolean and returns 1 or 0.

I'll show you how it works by resolving the logic step by step. My birthday is Feb 10, 1969. Therefore to find out how old I am:

@YEAR(@DATE)-@YEAR(BirthDate) - ((@MONTH(@DATE) < @MONTH(BirthDate))
     or (@MONTH(@DATE) = @MONTH(BirthDate) AND @DOM(@DATE) < @DOM(BirthDate)))

First, we resolve the date months and years:
2005-1969 - ((12 < 2)  or (12 = 2 AND 30 < 10))

We do the first subtraction to find out how many years:
36 - ((12 < 2)  or (12 = 2 AND 30 < 10))

Now, we resolve the rest of the expressions. They are boolean, so they will all resolve to either 1 (true) or 0 (false):
36 - ((0)  or (0 AND 0))

Resolve the AND. For AND, both must be true. They aren't so:
36 - ((0)  or (0))

Resolve the OR. For OR, if either is true, it's true. Neither is true, so:
36 - 0

Do the math, and I am:
36

-------------------------
Let's do this again, but this time, lets make my birthday Dec 31, 1969. Meaning I have not yet had my birthday.

2005-1969 - ((12 < 12)  or (12 = 12 AND 30 < 31))

36 - ((12 < 12)  or (12 = 12 AND 30 < 31))

36 - ((0)  or (1 AND 1))

36 - ((0)  or (1))

36 - 1

My age is: 35

------------------------

See how it works?

Erika -



Why didn't you tell me you were responding to Captain Infinity - you would have saved me all my trouble.  lol 

Now, getting back to my original scenario.

You want a bound value to change because you altered an unbound value. It is the changing of the unbound value that triggers the On Form Change program which sets the bound value. If the change to Age doesn't trigger the progamming, the Senior Citizen Discount never gets set 

This is the part I don't understand.  The age LE is changing based on FORM ENTRY.  It is not bound to a field and so I onle "see it" in the unboud Age LE.  Again, the age calculation was triggered by the on form entry event.

Now, the SENIOR DISCOUNT is a bound field but if the programming were also on form entry following the age caculation it would seem to me that it would still calculate and since it IS IN a bound field that - in and of itself, without regard to the age calculation would trigger the "on form change event" programming to execute and thus (since the element is bound) save the calculated value, along with my LAST UPDATE LE since there was (in the Senior Discount LE) a form change AND the LAST UPDATE LE is bound. 

I admire your expertise and am certain you must be right - but somehow I am just not getting it from the explanation ... and would like to.

Thanks!

  but who's counting?   lol

Spencer,

I didn't realize that your example was meant to run On Form Entry. I was talking about typing into or calculating Age, changing the unbound value which would in turn trigger the On Form Change event to set the value in a bound element.

There are many examples of wanting to change a bound value based on a change to an unbound element.

For example, you may have three unbound elements whose values are used a calculate a single bound element. If you change any of the unbound values, the bound value should recalculate. Examples of this include a custom calculator, assembling an adddress, creating a customer code, etc.

You may want to make a selection from an unbound combo box and have the change trigger a recalculation of bound elements on your Form.

You may want to make a choice from an unbound radio button group and have the change trigger a recalculation of bound elements.

And so on...

As to your case, if you don't want certain changes to "count" as a change, set a variable indicating the special condition. It would go something like this:

GLOBAL CODE
[code]stat gFlag as Int

    gFlag = 0[/code]

FORM::ON FORM ENTRY
[code]If Not @IsBlank(Birthdate)
{
     Age = @YEAR(@DATE)-@YEAR(BirthDate) - ((@MONTH(@DATE) < @MONTH(BirthDate)) or (@MONTH(@DATE) = @MONTH(BirthDate) AND @DOM(@DATE) < @DOM(BirthDate)))

    // Set the flag telling SBasic that you
    // don't want this particular change to count.
    gFlag = 1 
}[/code]

FORM::ON FORM CHANGE (or wherever)
[code]// Only set LastUpdate if the change "counts"
If gFlag = 0
{
     LastUpdate = @Date
}
Else
{
    gFlag = 0
}[/code]

This method allows you to manage more than just the limited case of unbound values. You can pick and choose which changes matter based on whatever criteria is appropriate at the moment. Sometimes it will be unbound elements, sometimes it will be only certain values. Sometimes you will want unbound changes to count. Sometimes you won't. Sometimes what you want is the same as what most other people want. Sometimes it isn't.

By using methods like this, you don't have to rely on us as developers to be able to accurately predict what is "right" for each of thousands of users in every circumstance. We try to give you flexible powerful tools that allow you to make these decisions for yourself, as needed.

Carl -

I appreciate the "suggestion"; however, I have never used the @message function because it is barely visible and somehow, no matter how important it may be, I never think to look there.  Now, if a certain designer would like to give us the option of placing a "message" OVER an LE - limiting the size of the message to the size of the LE - THAT would be a WONDERFUL enhancement for version 2.0.   lol

My date of birth and date of anniversary are on a separate (called Special Events) tab, along with the age and years.  The age/years is only important to me if the Special Events tab is in view.  Perhaps there is a way for me to program something that will work for me based on that condition.

For me, the main issue is still (as you said) that I don't want the on form change programming to be triggered based simply on the recalculation of my age and/or years LE's.

Erika -

I understand the examples you gave about wanting to execute programming based on a change in an unbound element; however, in each of the specific examples you gave, I believe that I would find it easy enough to simply have the programming execute based on element exit.  Even if the statement had to go in more than one field, that is not like having to insert programming for 77 fields.

As for your stat gflag suggestion, assuming it works for what I need, and it looks like it will, I would still have to deal with it in my age/years LE's but more importantly, in every single command button on the form (and perhaps other instances that just don't come to mind right now) and for every command button I add to the form.  Once again, that seems like a lot of extra work to me.  Nevertheless, it may not be as bad as I think and I'll certainly give it a shot.

I cannot help but feel that there has to be a better solution.  Just as the distinction has been made whether or not to give the "warning" notice when the only change is in an unbound LE, so too do I think there's a way to provide for what I want and still be allowing the individual user to make individual choices based on their individual needs - but to make doing so easier.

I mentioned earlier a "switch."  Suppose for example I could use an @LE function (not a switch but this would work too ... in switch form - I would simply follow my programming with someting like /LEB or /LEU):

@LE(Bound,Last Updated = @date )
@LE(Unbound,Last Updated = @date)

giving me a choice of whether the on-form-change programming executes only when a bound le is changed or only when an unbound le is changed.  If neither is specified - meaning I just dont use the @LE portion of the programming, then the default would be the current state of considering both bound and unbound LE's as triggering a form change.

and perhaps another option of
@LEIGNORE(Birthdate;Anniversary)

where I can chose all but the specified fields to trigger the programming.

These suggestions would not take anything away from people  who are happy now with the way things are; They would not have to learn anything new nor would they have to do anything different than what they are currently doing.  For them, everything would be just as good as it now is.

But for the customer (me and maybe even one other person - lol) who is not happy, I (or we) would have an easy-to-use, viable, means of "grabbing control."

Once again, I am looking to have the best of both worlds; flexibility (as we both agree) for the user to have control when wanted BUT coupled with ease of use in implementing that control.

Erika -

I appreciate your efforts to help me understand this and to come up with a viable solution.  Unfortunately, I am still at a loss (except that I have not yet tried the gflag approach and hope to.  Even if that doesn't make me happy in this particular case I can see that it has inherent value that I might want to use for another purpose).

With regard to command buttons, they do seem to trigger a "form change" unless - again - I am missing something and, unfortunately, I don't have a clue what that might be.

I just went to a record that does not contain a date of birth and therefore the age calucation programming did not occur.

But the instant I clicked on the command button, the Last Update field changed.  (Please remember that if I don't click on a button - and there is no date of birth, the last update field is not updated). 

Here is the code on the particular command button I pressed.  I do not see that it is affecting any bound (or unbound for that matter) field.

ar Z as int

if not @update then
{
z = @asynchshell("C:\Sesame\Data\Sounds\Cannot Use Here.wav")
STOP
}
else
if status = "deceased"
{
z = @asynchshell("C:\Sesame\Data\Sounds\Deceased.wav")
STOP
}
else
if record type = "companion"
and @isblank(Mail Name)
then
{
z = @asynchshell("C:\Sesame\Data\Sounds\Companion.wav")
throwfocus(Alt Record)
STOP
}
else
if @isblank(Mail Name)
and not record type = "companion"
then
{
z = @asynchshell("C:\Sesame\Data\Sounds\Mail Name.wav")
throwfocus(Mail Name)
STOP
}
else
if
@isblank (Address1)
or @isblank (city)
or @isblank (state)
or @isblank (zip)
then
{
z = @asynchshell("C:\Sesame\Data\Sounds\Address Incomplete.wav")
STOP
}
else
AlternateDefaultPrinter("Auto HP LaserJet 5 - Envelopes")
Newpage(950,412)
PrintString("Spencer Wulwick (MVR)", 30, 25, 0, "Arial", 14, 0)
PrintString("210 South Hale Avenue", 30, @PageExtentY(), 0, "Arial", 14, 0)
PrintString("Tampa, FL 33609-3933", 30, @PageExtentY(), 0, "Arial", 14, 0)

PrintString(Mail Name, 450, 200, 0, "BArial", 16, 0)
PrintString(Address1 + " " + Apt, 450, @PageExtentY(), 0, "BArial", 16, 0)
PrintString(City + ", " + State + "  " + Zip, 450, @PageExtentY(), 0, "BArial", 16, 0)
FinishPage()
RestoreDefaultPrinter()
 

Your suggestion to try a static text box and change the label sounds like it mght be the perfect solution, assuming that, indeed, it does not trigger an on form change event.  I searched through he program guide and do not have a clue what function I would use to accomplish the programming.  Could you point me in the right direction, please.

Thanks!

Erika -

I forgot about the "throw focus."  Most of the "conditions" simply play a sound file (instead of providing a message box with the accompanying obnoxious sound).

I have been told many times to STOP using STOP; however, it works perfectly in this instance and I simply haven't had the time to figure out the alternative way to do this.  (Perhaps on January 26th, I'll get some fresh ideas).   

@label returns the label text of the layout element, so I don't think that's the one I want.  That led me; however, to
Label(element,m) which allows me to "Assigns label m to layout element. Adds a label if none exists." and that sounds like precisely what I need.

I am very eager to try it but first I MUST work on my new Palm Pilot which I received as a gift, after having kinda wanted one for over 20 years or so.  Soon as I get it working with my address book uploaded, I am going to try this.

Thanks!

Quote:


Stop only appears to work perfectly in this instance but I can guarantee you that it is not working perfectly. Calling Stop is like driving your car into a wall doing 100 mph. You will stop and it will not be pretty. The alternative in this case is a pair of braces {} on your last else statement. The reason you were using STOP is because your code was written incorrectly and the last Else statement was only controlling the call to AlternateDefaultPrinter().

Var Z as int

if not @update then
{
	z = @asynchshell("C:\Sesame\Data\Sounds\Cannot Use Here.wav")
}
else if status = "deceased"
{
	z = @asynchshell("C:\Sesame\Data\Sounds\Deceased.wav")
}
else if record type = "companion" and @isblank(Mail Name) then
{
	z = @asynchshell("C:\Sesame\Data\Sounds\Companion.wav")
	throwfocus(Alt Record)
}
else if @isblank(Mail Name) and not record type = "companion" then
{
	z = @asynchshell("C:\Sesame\Data\Sounds\Mail Name.wav")
	throwfocus(Mail Name)
}
else if @isblank (Address1) or @isblank (city) or @isblank (state) or @isblank (zip) then
{
	z = @asynchshell("C:\Sesame\Data\Sounds\Address Incomplete.wav")
}
else
{
	AlternateDefaultPrinter("Auto HP LaserJet 5 - Envelopes")
	Newpage(950,412)
	PrintString("Spencer Wulwick (MVR)", 30, 25, 0, "Arial", 14, 0)
	PrintString("210 South Hale Avenue", 30, @PageExtentY(), 0, "Arial", 14, 0)
	PrintString("Tampa, FL 33609-3933", 30, @PageExtentY(), 0, "Arial", 14, 0)

	PrintString(Mail Name, 450, 200, 0, "BArial", 16, 0)
	PrintString(Address1 + " " + Apt, 450, @PageExtentY(), 0, "BArial", 16, 0)
	PrintString(City + ", " + State + "  " + Zip, 450, @PageExtentY(), 0, "BArial", 16, 0)
	FinishPage()
	RestoreDefaultPrinter()
} 

-Ray

Hi -

Ray, thanks so much for taking time to provide the "correct" code for my command button.  

Mark, thanks for the explanation and, especially now that Ray has given me the code - and now that I have a better and realistic reason for not using "stop," I will get it "fixed" and avoid its use.

I would strongly urge you to put stronger language in the Programmer's Guide cautioning against the use.  I would even go so far as to state that this is only available if it MUST be used in converting Q&A applications and that it should NOT be used in newly developed Sesame applications.  If the programming guide gives me the instructions for using a specific "function" (I'm referring to "stop" in this instance) then I ought to be comfortable with using it.  It is disconcerting to follow the published guide and then be told - "this is bad."

I would hope that at some point, the references to Q&A could be eliminated completely. After all, Q&A has been "dead" (even though I realize that some people are still using it) for over 10 years now.  Sesame has been out for two. At some point, Q&A users, who will convert to Sesame will be non-existent and the manuals will be cleaner and clearer if they are limited to Sesame.

Thanks.

Quote:

Ditto!